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Author Topic: When is it OK for a team which has clinched a #1 playoff seed to not do everything possible to win? Back to Topics
Teslukbla
Champion Author
Missouri

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Message Posted: Dec 27, 2009 7:59:14 PM

Last week the Colts clinched the #1 AFC playoff seed. This week, in their game against the Jets, Coach Caldwell rested Peyton Manning and several other starters who form the nucleus of the team during the 2nd half of the game. The Jets took the lead in the 2nd half and went on to win the game, dropping the record of the Colts to 14-1. On one hand, resting the starters and giving reserve players playing time may benefit the Colts once they play the playoff games. Other teams in the past have rested key players in the final game before the playoffs. On the other hand, the Jets are in contention with several other teams for a playoff berth and the Colts should have had an ethical obligation to make their best attempt to win the game. In addition, the game was played in Indianapolis, and the fans who paid their way to see the game deserved to see their team strive for a perfect season.

[Edited by: Teslukbla at 12/27/2009 9:01:20 PM EST]
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2010 9:46:59 AM

<<It is like point shaving.>>

Hardly. Point shaving is done in secret for the benefit of gamblers. Resting players is done in the open to protect the health of key players.
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2010 9:42:20 AM

<<I'm sure the Colts have made dumb roster moves in their history as well.>>

I can't argue that one either. My only point was that John U was the reason I became a Colt fan.

SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2010 9:37:07 AM

<<I think the bigger mistake was Coach Noll not drafting Dan Marino.>>

OK. Picking Gabriel Rivera instead of Dan Marino was just as dumb as releasing John U.
arthur1957
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2010 8:02:45 PM

Never ok. It is like point shaving. Criminal.
TDice
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2010 8:04:33 AM

Thanks for the lesson professor, I guess "patronizing" is easier to spell. But you just did it again.
Yes, I'm very aware of Johnny Unitas, who is from the Pittsburgh area. I'm sure the Colts have made dumb roster moves in their history as well. I think the bigger mistake was Coach Noll not drafting Dan Marino.
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2010 7:07:14 AM

<<you are a Steeler fan too>> I assume that was directed to me.

"John Henry was a steel driving man." I became a Steeler fan when John Henry Johnson joined the Steelers. I never quit being a fan. However, I was already a Colts fan, because of the biggest mistake in the history of the Steeler franchise. They RELEASED John U, who was later picked up by the Colts. John U is the reason I became a Colts fan, and I never quit being a Colts fan.
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2010 6:59:27 AM

<<thats exactly the word I was searching for>>

Did you know patronizing and condescending are synonyms?
TDice
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2010 12:51:44 PM

Thanks Zim, thats exactly the word I was searching for. But I guess Mr. Spelling Bee didn't catch my drift.

The only redeeming quality about you is that you state that you are a Steeler fan too. Other than that, you come across as a Bill Polian apologist...to stay on topic.
BuzzBomb
Champion Author Baltimore

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2010 12:17:51 PM

Check out Zim trying to slip in the missing "h"
Zimcity
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2010 7:55:52 AM

Now you're just being patronizing, but don't expect Pittsburg Steelers fans to care much about spelling. hehehe



[Edited by: Zimcity at 1/8/2010 8:57:34 AM EST]
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2010 7:53:01 AM

<<your condesending comments>>

You are joking, right? If that were true, I would have to point out that there is a "c" in condescending. Oops.
TDice
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2010 3:26:46 PM

OK, Tomlin THIS season. Tomlin took Cowhers team to the top of the heap, don't think that Caldwell will do the same this year with Dungys team.

I didn't start "lashing" out at your favorite team until you started your condesending comments. Just because you drink Polians kool-aid, the rest of us don't have to agree with their dumb moves.
Zimcity
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2010 1:08:38 PM

You can reiterate all the stupid comments you want.

Fact is the Colts didn't care enough about trying to go 16-0 to leave their starters in. I have no problem with it, but apparently lots of Colts fans did.

SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2010 7:50:42 AM

<<we'll see how far Caldwell takes Dungy's team>>

Yes we will. One thing is certain. This year it will be will be farther than Tomlin, which is probably what you are really pissed about.

Personally, I have been a Steeler fan for 50 years. I am just a bigger fan of the Colts. AND when my team does not do so well, I don't lash out against other teams.
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2010 7:41:38 AM

<<If you have a home game, you need to keep your stars in at least until half time.>>

Manning & Company didn't leave until 10:13 in the 3rd Q against the jets.

<<If you are on the road and playing a non-contender rest them all you want.>>

Manning & Company played the whole first quarter against the Bills.

Apparently the Colts did what you expected. So why is every one so pissed. Need I reiterate my FANTASY comment?
Zimcity
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2010 10:54:15 AM

I think Teskluba hit the nail on the head.

If you have a home game, you need to keep your stars in at least until half time. If you are on the road and playing a non-contender rest them all you want.

SE3.5, that's just a stupid comment. Clearly the requirements for being an NFL head coach and having a good fantasy team are totally different. Fortunately for me, I was already done by the time the Colts mailed it in and didn't have to worry about starting Joe Flacco instead of Manning.

[Edited by: Zimcity at 1/6/2010 11:56:38 AM EST]
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2010 7:19:20 AM

Pulling Manning, Wayne, and Clark must have really hurt all you FANTASY coaches running your FANTASY teams. If you are all so smart, why aren't you real coaches with real teams?
TDice
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2010 6:08:41 PM

OK, Mr. Arrogance, we'll see how far Caldwell takes Dungy's team. If you're going to rest starters, week 17 makes a lot more sense. The Steelers rested starters vs. Buffalo about 5 yrs ago in week 17 and still beat them with a rookie Willie Parker running wild. The Bills needed the game and still lost.
Teslukbla
Champion Author Missouri

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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2010 6:03:26 PM

I remember the final regular season game the Rams played the season they won the Super Bowl. The Rams rested many of the starters and ended up losing the game to the Eagles. The difference between what the Rams did and what the Colts management perpetrated on their fans was that the Rams played that game in Philidelphia and the Eagles were not a playoff contender, so there were no playoff implications and no playoff contender getting a free pass. There were no thousands of paying Rams fans getting screwed out of a performance, instead it was paying Eagles fans getting to enjoy an Eagles victory. The Eagles finished that season 5-11.

[Edited by: Teslukbla at 1/5/2010 7:04:44 PM EST]
throttle
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2010 8:03:14 AM

You don't pull your starters in a close game.
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2010 7:46:35 AM

<<NEVER you always play to win>>

Every good leader knows that sometimes you have to lose a battle in order to win the war.
robo0427
Sophomore Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2010 7:32:41 AM

NEVER you always play to win
cincidap
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2010 11:56:57 PM

Don't pull your top players in a close game. (That includes Brad Childress too.)
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2010 7:52:15 AM

I wonder if the Pats would rather have lost Wes Welker or lost the game. Oh wait. They didn't get to choose. They lost both.
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2010 7:48:40 AM

Oh that Sherman Edwards. I wonder if he ever got his ribs cracked going over the middle.
TDice
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2010 8:00:23 PM

Don't you know anything SE? Sherman Edwards played basketball for Syracuse.

My bad. I'm sure you've heard the sound bite ad nauseum. We will see now won't we? If RECENT history repeats itself, the Colts have NO chance to move onto the big game. The same goes for the Aints, who are riding the wrong type of streak. The Chargers are the hottest & now is the time you want to be peaking. Theres plenty of time to rest in the off-season.
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2010 6:07:48 PM

Who is Sherman Edwards, tdice? If you meant Herman Edwards, what does he know?

Herman Edwards coaching record:
Super bowl Wins: 0
Conference Championships: 0
Division Championships: 1
SUV4GUY
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2010 4:02:04 PM

I guess time will tell if the Colts can say ""we did the right thing".

I was surprised the Vikings kept Favre in as long as they did. At 31-0, going into the second half, you would think it would be safe.

IF Favre or Manning were to go down with an injury, could you imagine the uproar that would create as well ...
scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2010 3:42:21 PM

The Pats went full bore every game and ran out of gas in the Super Bowl. I don't think the Colts wanted that to happen.
SUVFan
Champion Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2010 3:33:23 PM

You play to win a championship. Period.

If you have the number 1 seed wrapped up and you have guys dinged up who might benefit from a little time off, that seems like the smart thing to do. An undefeated regular season scores with the fans only as long as you at least make the Super Bowl and that's not even enough for fans of teams who have been there and lost the last time they made it if that was recent.

There's no guarantee that the regulars would win the game anywayand with more to prove, the backups might just give you a better chance. For example, Manning might be quicker to throw the ball away than normal. He'd be smart to throw it away instead of putting it somewhere than his receiver would get drilled after making the catch. RBs and recivers would tend to run out of bounds, avoiding contact, with the coach's blessing. It's just an extension of the well accepted hook slide QBs use every game.
TDice
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2010 11:13:54 AM

As Sherman Edwards says:

YOU PLAY...TO WIN THE GAME!

nraacct
Champion Author North Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 1, 2010 7:39:12 PM

If the game had been one-sided at that point, then pulling the starters would be OK. But the game was still close (15-10) and the Colts would have been given the opportunity to go for that undefeated season. This decision puts even more pressure on the Colts. Do you play the starters at Buffalo? If you do, you still run the same risk of injury. If you don't, you can lose the momentum you had as you get ready for the playoffs. Don't forget that this has happened to the Colts several times just in the last ten years.
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 1, 2010 8:11:12 AM

The starters were not pulled until the 3rd quarter. Prior to being pulled, Manning overthrew Wayne, Wayne, and Clark all of whom were going deep and had a step on the DB. Then special teams gave up a 106 yard kickoff return. That was 28 points lost. What was the final score?

The jets should have been "put away" by the time players were being pulled.

The Colts philosophy has always included "next man up" when someone gets hurt. The "next man up" philosophy does not work, unless the "next man up" has taken some game snaps prior to being asked to step up.

I am a big time fan, and I would have loved a perfect season, BUT I respect the coaches' decision.
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