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lincauknab
We have plenty of OIL in America, let's get drillin. - Texas Gas Prices
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Author Topic: We have plenty of OIL in America, let's get drillin. Back to Topics
lawsuitdelivery
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Detroit

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2011 10:00:55 PM

I just found some interesting information about ( Oil in America ) Montana, South Dakota and North Dakota's Bakken Formation. 25 times more than 1995 Estimate The U.S. Department of the interior, U.S. Geological Survey found 3.0 to 4.3 BILLION BARRELS of undiscovered, Technically RECOVERABLE OIL in an area known as the Bakken Formation.
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
GasBuddy_Member
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Message Posted: Mar 28, 2011 10:55:17 AM

This story about the Bakken Formation is now a Gas Buddy news story, retold from a Huffington Post article.

Even if it were true (and read my earlier post on the problems with this story), gas wouldn't immediately be flowing to the pumps.

Still, it's interesting that lawsuitdelivery, who created this and 17 other threads, all identical) hasn't come back to offer any additional information.
GasBuddy_Member
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Mar 17, 2011 5:50:53 PM

YOu do know, RLPuttputt, that OPEC isn't just Middle East or Saudi oil, don't you? The question is just for perspective.
RLPuttputt
Champion Author Waco

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Message Posted: Mar 17, 2011 5:00:42 PM

Higher prices and more money to OPEC will fix EVERYTHING!
Michael29644
Champion Author Greenville

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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2011 11:03:20 PM

Technically recoverable does not equate to economically feasible.
diltarget
Rookie Author Reading

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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2011 7:30:51 PM

we resell are gas to opec and they jack up the price or we store it in case america is on verge of collapse or if supply goes dry and military purposes
GasBuddy_Member
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2011 4:17:07 PM

ricknickneer:

I would suggest, if you haven't already done so, read posts that responded to lawsuitdelivery's original post. Some are are of the "Drill, baby, drill" view, and some bring a different reality to this thread regarding how much oil there may be, contradiction to the post that lawsuitdelivery made in 18 threads on Gas Buddy alone.

For some background:

This issue is repeated in numerous e-mail chains, picked up and included in numerous websites, and many websites discuss this issue exclusively (based on the e-mail I'll describe below) and are usually filled with one word or one sentence responses, generally "drill", or "use our own oil", etc., as if there was nothing involved in the oil exploitation, as if it's just sitting there in barrels.

Usually the e-mails and websites are such as this:

If you start reading and "don't believe" go to the bottom of the page and click on the US Government link. You'll get the same information.

The U. S. Geological Service issued a report in April ('08) that only scientists and oil men knew was coming, but man was it big. It was a revised report (hadn't been updated since '95) on how much oil was in this area of the western 2/3 of North Dakota ; western South Dakota ; and extreme eastern Montana ..... check THIS out:

The Bakken is the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska 's Prudhoe Bay, and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503 billion barrels.. Even if just 10% of the oil is recoverable... at $107 a barrel, we're looking at a resource base worth more than $5.3 trillion.

'When I first briefed legislators on this, you could practically see their jaws hit the floor. They had no idea.' says Terry Johnson, the Montana Legislature's financial analyst.

'This sizable find is now the highest-producing onshore oil field found in the past 56 years.' reports, The Pittsburgh Post Gazette. It's a formation known as the Williston Basin, but is more commonly referred to as the 'Bakken.' And it stretches from Northern Montana, through North Dakota and into Canada . For years, U. S. oil exploration has been considered a dead end. Even the 'Big Oil' companies gave up searching for major oil wells decades ago. However, a recent technological breakthrough has opened up the Bakken's massive reserves.... and we now have access of up to 500 billion barrels. And because this is light, sweet oil, those billions of barrels will cost Americans just $16 PER BARREL!

That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 41 years straight.

2. And if THAT didn't throw you on the floor, then this next one should - because it's from TWO YEARS AGO!

U. S. Oil Discovery- Largest Reserve in the World!
Stansberry Report Online - 4/20/2006

Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the largest untapped oil reserve in the world. It is more than 2 TRILLION barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush mandated its extraction. In three and a half years of high oil prices none has been extracted. With this mother load of oil why are we still fighting over off-shore drilling?

They reported this stunning news: We have more oil inside our borders, than all the other proven reserves on earth. Here are the official estimates:

- 8-times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
- 18-times as much oil as Iraq
- 21-times as much oil as Kuwait
- 22-times as much oil as Iran
- 500-times as much oil as Yemen
- and it's all right here in the Western United States .

HOW can this BE? HOW can we NOT BE extracting this? Because the environmentalists and others have blocked all efforts to help America become independent of foreign oil! Again, we are letting a small group of people dictate our lives and our economy....WHY?

James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says we've got more oil in this very compact area than the entire Middle East -more than 2 TRILLION barrels untapped. That's more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in the world today, reports The Denver Post.

Don't think 'OPEC' will drop its price - even with this find? Think again! It's all about the competitive marketplace, - it has to. Think OPEC just might be funding the environmentalists?

Got your attention/ire up yet? Hope so! Now, while you're thinking about it .... and hopefully P.O'd, do this:

3. Pass this along If you don't take a little time to do this, then you should stifle yourself the next time you want to complain about gas prices .. because by doing NOTHING, you've forfeited your right to complain.- - - - - -

It frequently goes on to add something like:

Now I just wonder what would happen in this country if every one of you sent this to every one in your address book.
By the way...this is all true. Check it out at the link below!!!
GOOGLE it or follow this link. It will blow your mind.
http://usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911
A: The Bakken Formation touted in a chain e-mail isn't the world's largest oil reserve. The amount of oil it contains, according to the U.S. Geological Survey, is less than one one-hundredth of the estimate cited in the e-mail.

[End of e-mail chain]

- - - - - - - - - - - - Gas Buddy members have posted this e-mail on this website probably several dozen times, almost always by members posting it as their first message post and frequently as their first and only post, and they never have another Gas Buddy activity, meaning their points total remains at 120 points; in lawsuitdelivery's case, he's made 18 posts since he joined Gas Buddy, and for every post he's made he's started the topic, and every thread has been the same as this one, verbatim.

If you did a little searching of the internet for this topic, specifically regarding the Bakken Formation, you'd find some of its claims turns up hundreds of results. Unfortunately, it is false. It combines and twists several different news stories and studies into a longer tale of sound and fury that ultimately signifies nothing (factually anyway).

The tale begins with an exhortation telling the reader to "go to the bottom of the page and click on the US Government link" for proof of the e-mail's veracity. Well, if you did, you would find takes you to a U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) press release from April 2008 which directly contradicts the e-mail's main assertion.

The e-mail says that the Bakken Formation oil reserve (which is located in the Dakotas and Montana) "has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil" and is estimated to hold 503 billion barrels of oil. That's not true. It credits the USGS report from 2008 as the source of this information. It's not.

The glowing language and more optimistic estimates about Bakken quoted in the e-mail can be traced to a 2006 Wall Street Journal story reprinted in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette. But the anonymous author of this e-mail omits an important caveat from that story, which said that "the lofty predictions remain unproven, and skeptics remain."

And there was an incomplete USGS draft study of the Bakken from 2000 that included estimates ranging up to 500 billion barrels. But the Energy Information Administration (EIA) explained in 2006 that it was not peer-reviewed and cautioned readers to wait for the official USGS estimate.

The EIA in 2005 advised that:
"A draft study by the late organic geochemist Leigh Price provides estimates ranging from 271 to 503 billion barrels (mean of 413 billion) of potential resources in place. The study represents Dr. Price’s work as it stood at the time of his death in August 2000. It was conducted while he was working for the USGS, but it did not receive a complete scientific peer review by the USGS and was not published as a USGS product. A new assessment of the entire basin, due out in about a year, will provide an updated USGS estimate of the technically recoverable oil resources in the Bakken Formation.

"The official estimate, contained in the USGS press release from last year, was a substantially smaller estimate of technically recoverable oil: 3 billion to 4.3 billion barrels."

The e-mail cites James Bartis as a "lead researcher of this study," however Bartis was actually a RAND researcher who led a different, related study. Bartis wrote a 2006 report on oil shale development and resources in the United States that said "the midpoint in our estimate range, 800 billion barrels, is more than triple the proven oil reserves of Saudi Arabia." That's for the entire U.S., not Bakken alone. But Bartis also cautioned that the technology to extract oil from the fields was not yet commercially viable and said that even "under high growth assumptions, an oil shale production level of 1 million barrels per day is probably more than 20 years in the future, and 3 million barrels per day is probably more than 30 years into the future." Nowhere in his study did Bartis say that Bakken has "more than 2 trillion barrels," as the e-mail falsely claims.

Snopes.com reviewed a similar mutation of this e-mail and traced the two trillion barrels of oil estimate to a tout sheet from the Stansberry Report Online, a group referenced in the e-mail. Snopes also noted that Stansberry is an investment newsletter trying to sell subscriptions. Stansberry no longer seems to be promoting exploitation of the Bakken Formation but, for reference, Stansberry's publisher and its editor were hit with $1.5 million in financial penalties in 2007 after a U. S. federal judge determined they defrauded their own subscribers in a securities scam.

Snopes research ultimately determined the e-mail to be a "mixture of true and false information." You can read their finds on the Snopes website. But I'd add that the email's implication that politicians, environmentalists and the media are preventing oil drilling in the Bakken is decidedly false. The Bakken has already seen drilling and was a principal cause of a relatively recent increase in U.S. proven oil reserves, according to the EIA. It's just not nearly as impressive as most people "know to be true" from information they received anonymously in an e-mail or by an anonymous posting such as the one that started this thread.

As for sitting on all the resources, I'd suggest you read through the various threads on Gas Buddy; you'll pretty much be able to determine which posts (and which members) are intelligently contributing to the discussion (there are intelligent postings on both sides of the issue).

But to follow-up Maxstar, who wrote:
"...if companies want to take the risk and put up their money to drill, they probably feel that it could be profitable so let them try. My only stipulation would be that any oil produced would need to stay in the US."

It would be hard to require that any oil produced stay in the U.S., like it or not, because it may be more profitable for the companies to export their product, either as crude or refined, than it would be to sell it in the United States.

The issues isn't as simple as "Drill, baby, drill."

- - - - - - - - - - -

And, while we're at it:

As recently as a the end of 2000, the United States consumed consumes 19.6 million barrels per day, of oil, which was more than 25% of the world's total. (You've since added a growing China and India middle class to oil consumption demands). Despite predictions that the U.S. wiould exhaust it's supply of oil in as little as forty years, the demand was on the increase, and was predicted to continue increasing, because of the ever increasing population. Increase in resource consumption is caused by three factors: population growth, new uses found for a resource, and increase in demand for a resource to increase living standards. The rate of consumption for oil in 2000 was increasing at a rate of about 2% yearly.

The United States produced enough oil to supply it's own demand until 1970. In that year the U.S. had to start importing oil to meet the demand. The oil production for 2000 was expected to average 5.8 million barrels per day of crude oil. The production for 1999 was 5.9 million barrels per day. After the oil price collapse of 1985/1986, U.S. oil production declined dramatically. Oil production in 2000 was down by 24% from 1985. However, according to the Energy Information Administration, oil production was expected to increase by 70,000 barrels per day, or 1.1% in 2001. There was little to no chance of discovering any significant new onshore oil fields in the U.S. There was a good possibility of discovering major deposits of oil offshore, but offshore drilling was been banned in many areas. There are several good prospects far offshore that were open to exploration, but these are usually in very deep waters, and are extremely expensive to drill. [Note: People want offshore oil exploration and drilling, but when something such as the BP incident in the Gulf, they complain that BP should be shut down, as if the process of deep water drilling was simple and perfect.] The U.S. produced 12% of the world's oil (as of the end of 2000), and and this production was concentrated onshore, and offshore along the Texas Louisiana Gulf Coast, extending inland through west Texas, Oklahoma, and eastern Kansas. There were also significant oil fields in Alaska along the central North Slope.

According to the EIA, the United States has 21 billion barrels of proved oil reserves as of January 1, 2000. The U.S. used about 6.6 billion barrels per year. That would be pnly enough oil to last the U.S. about three and a half years without importing oil from other countries. 84% of the reserves are concentrated in four states. Texas has 25%, both onshore, and offshore. Alaska has 24%, California has 21%, and Louisiana has 14% onshore, and offshore. Between 1990 and 2000, U.S. oil reserves dropped about 20%. New oil discoveries made in 1999 were made almost entirely in the Gulf of Mexico, and Alaska. (321 million barrels). All other discoveries were extensions of existing oil fields, or new reservoirs discovered in old fields. (404 million barrels).

The demand for oil in the United States is increasing slightly every year but domestic oil production is decreasing. The U.S. was expected to consume an average of 19.6 million barrels per day of oil in 2000. It was estimated that the U.S. imported 10.9 million barrels per day of oil in the first eight months of 2000). At this rate, the U.S. was importing about 57% of the oil that was being consumed. The main suppliers of oil to the U.S. at that time were Canada, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and Mexico. You can easily check the current consumption rates and U.S. suppliers (and a number of us have posted them in various Gas Buddy threads).

With few exceptions, 16,000 feet is the maximum depth at which oil is found. Below that depth, only gas exists because of the temperature of the earth. The United States has large areas of oil shale deposits which are sometimes misconstrued as being a readily available resource. However, oil shale deposits are not the same thing as conventional oil fields. There are no effective methods for extracting crude oil, from oil shale. A variety of processes have been tried, and all have failed. Oilsands, which is another kind of oil deposit, are found in large quantities in Canada. It has been estimated that the oilsands contain 1.7 trillion barrels of oil, but this oil cannot be recovered by standard methods of well drilling, and has to be strip mined. After it is dug up, the oil is removed by a water flotation process. Then, the waste sand has to be safely disposed. The strip mining process being used takes the energy equivalent of two barrels of oil to produce one barrel. In other words, the price to produce it is double the price for which it can be sold.

I'll say that again:
The strip mining process being used takes the energy equivalent of two barrels of oil to produce one barrel. In other words, the price to produce it is double the price for which it can be sold.

Another problem with the oilsands, is that much of it is too deep to be reached by strip mining. Other methods of removing the deeper oil are being experimented with, but they are all very costly. Canada's oilsands will probably not be produced in large amounts until the world's supply of conventional oil is nearly depleted.

So, ricknickneer, what should be our next step?
ricknickneer
Rookie Author California

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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2011 1:15:07 PM

We as Americans need to be self reliant and stop this depending on others to take care of our needs. As children we were taught to grow up and take care of ourselves. So, why in the world are we sitting on all of the resources to obtain our own oil? It's there, we know how to get it, lets use it!
ricknickneer
Rookie Author California

Posts:3
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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2011 1:15:06 PM

We as Americans need to be self reliant and stop this depending on others to take care of our needs. As children we were taught to grow up and take care of ourselves. So, why in the world are we sitting on all of the resources to obtain our own oil? It's there, we know how to get it, lets use it!
GasBuddy_Member
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2011 11:03:37 AM

aliemarble:

Why do you think prices will lower?
aliemarble
Rookie Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2011 8:45:04 AM

lets start drilling here! i want lower gas prices!
barajasjse
Veteran Author California

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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2011 10:17:10 PM

MM nop
GasBuddy_Member
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2011 5:44:14 PM



If you're going to read the snopes article, as beachdoor suggests, make sure you read the entire articles, which indicates that even if ALL the estimated undiscovered oil in the Bakken formation were extracted today, would only be enough to wean the U.S. off crude oil imports for one year.

While lawsuitdelivery may not have known about the complete story of the Bakken formation, beachdoor seems to have left out an important part of the story.

And, does anyone really think that the President is reading this thread and will respond to: "So President, WTFAUWF ?" Or, even if he was reading this thread, that he's respond to that wording to him?

catfish99
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2011 5:48:23 AM

Last July the USGS raised their estimate of the recoverable oil in Bakken to about 3.6 billion barrels. That's about 5 years worth at current consumption rates.
While importing oil makes strategic sense (each barrel we import is one more we still have in our territory), we do need to develop and exploit these resources to help with the transition to the next stage of energy use.
superscion
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 13, 2011 10:29:39 PM

Drill Baby Drill
GManCo
Champion Author Baton Rouge

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Message Posted: Mar 13, 2011 4:27:22 PM

Yes, so drill, drill, drill.
maxstar
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Mar 7, 2011 12:11:40 AM

I would not look to snopes to validate any of this. Instead if companies want to take the risk and put up their money to drill, they probably feel that it could be profitable so let them try. My only stipulation would be that any oil produced would need to stay in the US.
stupidsongs2
Rookie Author Austin

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2011 2:29:45 PM

The oil may be there, however, we simply cannot get to it due to it being locked in oil shale. It has very little to do with environmentalism and everything to due with cost effectiveness. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakken_Formation

"In April 2008, a report issued by the state of North Dakota Department of Mineral Resources estimated that the North Dakota portion of the Bakken contained 167 billion barrels (2.66×1010 m3) of oil.

While these numbers would appear to indicate a massive reserve, the percentage of this oil which might be extracted using current technology is another matter. Estimates of the Bakken's technically recoverable oil have ranged from as low as 1% — because the Bakken shale has generally low porosity and low permeability, making the oil difficult to extract — to Leigh Price's estimate of 50% recoverable. Reports issued by both the USGS and the state of North Dakota in April 2008 seem to indicate the lower range of recoverable estimates are more realistic with current technology."
falgal
Rookie Author Houston

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2011 1:36:55 PM

WE NEED TO GO GET NOW!!! Stupid tree huggers! DRILL NOW
falgal
Rookie Author Houston

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2011 1:36:33 PM

WE NEED TO GO GET NOW!!! Stupid tree huggers! DRILL NOW
MARIOWERX
Champion Author Vancouver

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2011 1:12:13 PM

Lots of hot air anyway.
jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Mar 5, 2011 7:54:41 AM

I found some oil on top of my driveway yesterday. It was after someone visited me - his iol pan must have a leak. Ok - so do I drill or call hazzmat?
HeavyDuty_cache
Champion Author Omaha

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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2011 3:34:43 PM

Can we drill in your back yard?
ff888
Rookie Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2011 1:17:30 PM

I really feel all the this gas price control is not what the what is really happening, just what they want us to believe and be controlled by.
and most buy into it. We do have many resources right here at home and close neighbors
GasBuddy_Member
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2011 8:00:30 AM



lawsuitdelivery made a similar post in about 18 different threads, providing no substantive information.

Bolondron"
Even if you exhausted "all the oil" that lawsuitdelivery said there is (and it's an optimistic figure), and you started getting it immediately, that would provide only about one year's worth of oil before you ran out. That said, the top five exporting countries accounted for 72 percent of United States crude oil imports in December 2010; those countries, in order of quantity to the United States, were Canada, Mexico (about half of what we get from Canada), Saudi Arabia (about 20 percent less than what we get from Canada), Nigeria (about the same as what we get from Saudi Arabia), and Venezuela.

Two of those countries are our immediate neighbors, and another one is in South America; one is in Africa, and only one is in the Middle East.

The next five countries we get oil from? Iraq (considerably less than half of what we get from Nigeria), Angola, Brazil, Algeria, and Colombia.
That's two Middle East countries (Iraq and Algeria), one from Africa, and two from South America.

Seems like, to use your words, you are pretty much off the Middle Eastern teat.
Bolondron
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2011 7:38:12 AM

But isn't it time to get off of the Middle Eastern teat? If we start looking/drilling/mining/whatever for oil or fuel sources in the USA, we can create real jobs, help the economy, and eventually help lower and/or stabilize oil/fuel prices for consumers.

Because, if it goes up to $5/gallon we will be paying more for EVERYTHING, not just gas at the pumps.
GasBuddy_Member
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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2011 7:29:48 AM

Before anyone starts taking this as fact, in part because lawsuitdelivery didn't provide any sourcing fo rthe information, check the following website:

More information on this story

The original post is only partially correct, and the information is optimistic rather than exact.

[Edited by: Gas_Buddy at 3/4/2011 8:31:17 AM EST]
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